INTROS II  

After Season One I wrote an essay that rounded-up all the intros to all the podcast episodes, and I figured I would do the same for Season Two. So, here we go:

You’re listening to This Thing We Call Art, a podcast about how, “We have to be aware of us reaching that point before we reach that point in these [Predominantly White Institutions], because that is not safe for us. It's not safe for them. It is not healthy for us. And once you've reached that point, it's like, there's no return. So, it's like that care... um, we have to acknowledge it in ourselves, but also each other. Because when we see one another going down that path, you gotta, like, catch 'em real quick before they have nothing left. You know what I mean? Like we gotta get to each other first. Because they will just suck you dry.”[i]

This is a warning. This is a call to watch out for one another, particularly for Black people to watch out for one another in Predominantly White Institutions (P.W.I.s). I spoke with Jessica Gaynelle Moss in September 2021, a year before I spoke to most of the interviewees in Season Two. I wanted to start off Season Two with this interview because there was so much powerful truth in it, some of which has only gotten more acute since. From calling out Kanye to saying we have to catch each other before we get burnt out, before P.W.I.s suck us dry, it was what I needed to hear in the moment, and what I need to be reminded of now. The continuation of Moss’ statement was, “Because they will just suck you dry… and feel no remorse and no empathy. They will just let you do it to yourself. So, we gotta, I really do believe that we gotta catch each other and that's why we gotta see each other, you know?”[ii] So many people are burnt out at the moment, myself included, having been sucked dry by P.W.I.s that let us do it to ourselves. And that’s why, “…we gotta catch each other and that's why we gotta see each other, you know?”[iii]

You’re listening to This Thing We Call Art, a podcast about how, “If a system's created that you're being told is the way people are judged and you're young and you're not a part of a generation of people who are really, like, critical of that yet, you sort of feel like, ‘Oh, okay, like, I'm not... I'm not smart, cause I can't, you know, I obviously am not able... I can't perform in this, like, format that like determines whether or not people are smart.’ So, it's like, ‘I must ... not be smart then...or I don't belong here cause this is like, you know, this is the, you know, this is the thing.’”[iv]

A lot of what I spoke with Shannon Stratton about was about how artists learn, methods of evaluation, and educational and cultural institutions. How is art an opportunity to learn in different physical and social environment, demonstrate knowledge in a multitude of ways, and be evaluated on different criteria, regardless of what object or space or event someone makes.

“You’re listening to This Thing We Call Art, a podcast about, ‘Being alive as an embracing. Living, right? In all the small ways, whether that's, you know, taking the time to enjoy your coffee in the morning or making sure you get your water or your exercise, or go out for a walk and get some sunlight on your face. Um, and being intentional about that and mindful about that to me is also ways of, of resisting.’”[v] Dr. Joana Joachim’s PhD thesis was about, “…strategies of resistance through self-preservation and self-care” “…among free and enslaved Black women in the French empire”[vi] as demonstrated through the visual culture of their hair and dress. At the end of our interview, in response to my last question and the only question I ask everyone (“…did we talk about what you thought we would talk about? Or do you have any questions for me? Or is there anything that you'd just like to say on this, you know, on this occasion?”[vii]), Dr. Joachim said, “…support Black trans artists and, um... drink water and sleep. [LAUGHS] Take care of yourself.”[viii] From prioritizing being the kind of person you want to be in the world, “…to make the circles of the world… that much brighter”[ix] over likability and marketability; to setting boundaries for yourself thereby demonstrating healthy behavior to your students and colleagues; I will borrow Dr. Joachim’s clarity around this, until I can find my own.

“You’re listening to This Thing We Call Art, a podcast about, ‘…when you saw the thing, when there was only 10 people at the show and it was freezing cold and like the, the thing broke.’”[x] Jesse Malmed reminds me how silly and playful and broken and profound and mundane art can be. How, in Malmed’s words, the story he told above is, “… a more likely story than sort of like, ‘Yeah, I went to see their triumphant retrospective.’ And, or ‘I saw them at whatever festival and they like sure knew their songs at that point. So... yeah. They had like some guitar techs and sound was good’, you know?”[xi] How can we do the thing better if we remember that the failed and broken thing might resonate more and have more truth to it, and be more fun and memorable?

       Speaking of, “You’re listening to This Thing We Call Art, a podcast about how, ‘It's such a mess. We're like so chaotic and we are just like pulling it together and we literally don't know what we are doing. We're just like learning by doing and making mistakes, and that means you can too.’”[xii] eva duerden of 12ø Collective would concur with Jesse Malmed’s mess-i-disciplinarity I think (they’re both Sagittarians after all). How can creating things and programmes in a way that prioritises learning, and being transparent about that, make room for others to do the same?

“You’re listening to This Thing We Call Art, a podcast about how, ‘…we're thinking about who is informing the structure of the institutions that we participate, or choose not to participate in, and how we as artists can encourage, force, help, push, catalyze a different kind of thinking around those structures, right? And how much of that work we want to do ourselves.’”[xiii] jina valentine and every other person in this season has had a hand in creating, co-creating, or stewarding an institution, from artist residencies to galleries to art fairs, trade unions, and archives. From Black Lunch Table to The Roll Up CLT, ThreeWalls, Blackity, Occasional Gallery, 12ø Collective, Our Community Inheritance, East London Comics & Arts Festival, and Artists’ Union England. From turning white funders away from Black-only events; to figuring out an exhibition schedule after artist fees are written into the budget; to developing research tools and connecting them to a larger network; to programming, speaking to the artists, selecting the artists, building the stalls, and cleaning the floors. How can the institutions we co-create be an opportunity to do things differently demonstrating to the other institutions we constitute, participate in, and rely on, how things can be done better.

“You’re listening to This Thing We Call Art, a podcast about how, ‘There's massive amounts of cognitive dissonance because people are just like, "No, that's not true. It's still happening. It's fine." And... everyone's in denial about the fact that it is just total collapse... because they've sunk so much energy into these things that they just can't get rid of the idea that it's not gonna work out for them.’”[xiv] Cecilia Wee articulates something here that connects a number of threads this season. How do we move from being burnt out to taking care of ourselves and the people we care about, perhaps by co-creating new institutions? Recognizing the cognitive dissonance we feel when our experiences conflict with the stories we were told about how things should be allows us to connect with others over this truth, and work together to meet our needs and close the gap between our experiences and our narratives.

“You’re listening to This Thing We Call Art, a podcast about how, ‘We are in a society that is inherently kind of, um, built to not listen to art. To voices like ours.’”[xv] Ruth Lie reminds us that, “… we could just, just fucking listen.”[xvi] We can be critical of our roles in institutions and listen to one another; and that work needs financial, emotional, and logistical support so that people who feel a responsibility to “…give other people a voice”[xvii] aren’t left to do this poorly paid work virtually alone and under an incredible amount of pressure.

You’re listening to This Thing We Call Art, a podcast about how, “I don't wanna give in to an ideology that I fundamentally disagree with that doesn't value artistic labour, because I can't think of anything more important... There [aren’t] very many spaces like art where you can talk about anything and everything, and it actually sets up a kind of external to yourself conversation with others, you know? Just, like, the actual thing that art is, blows my mind and I love it. And when that really happens, it's just the most incredible thing ever. And I just, I can't think of a more worthwhile way to spend my time.”[xviii]

Here Katriona Beales sets up one definition of art, why it matters, and how it’s not supported. I also think art is the most incredible thing ever in part because of its ability to connect people and facilitate a conversation about anything and everything, and it’s hard to hold onto that when your labour and your work isn’t valued. But you have to hold onto that to fight for something, rather than just against everything. Propping yourself up idealistically while buoyed between failed institutions and relying heavily on your work to provide a community with whom you can co-create better institutions to support yourself and others is a task. A task that should accommodate enjoying your coffee in the morning, going out for a walk and getting some sun on your face, failures and messes, honesty and transparency, and time to just fucking listen.

Kelly Lloyd

[i] Jessica Gaynelle Moss, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 15 September 2021, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/jessica-gaynelle-moss.

[ii] Ibid.

[iii] Ibid.

[iv] Shannon Stratton, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 4 August 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/shannon-stratton.

[v] Dr. Joana Joachim, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 7 September 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/dr-joana-joachim.

[vi] Ibid.

[vii] Ibid.

[viii] Ibid.

[ix] Ibid.

[x] Jesse Malmed, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 14 September 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/jesse-malmed.

[xi] Ibid.

[xii] 12ø Collective (eva duerden, Kelly Lloyd, Lou Macnamara), interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 1 November 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/12o-collective.

[xiii] jina valentine, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 2 November 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/jina-valentine.

[xiv] Cecilia Wee, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 30 December 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/cecilia-wee.

[xv] Ruth Lie, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 3 December 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/ruth-lie.

[xvi] Ibid.

[xvii] Ibid.

[xviii] Katriona Beales, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 14 December 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/katriona-beales.