MENTORSHIP
One of the questions I ask people often is about their mentors. If they have them, who they are; and if they don’t, who they want them to be and what kind of help they need. From December 2020 to December 2022, I worked as an Artist Mentor for SPACE Studios’ London Creative Network (L.C.N.) along with Lucy Sollitt, Levin Haegele, and Ruth Lie, who I interviewed on 3 December 2022. When speaking about our roles as Artist Mentors, Lie told me,
…it was amazing, it was a real turning point for me actually, L.C.N. Cause I don't know how you felt about it, but it was a really, um, precarious time for everyone and a really emotional time and there was a lot of... um, it, it was really difficult and, but I felt… "Okay, this is something I'm good at, like I can listen to people.” And, and that's, I guess, gotta count for something, especially now, especially during the pandemic.”[i]
Sometimes it felt odd to be in a position to give advice to people who knew better than me about many things, but I’m pretty decent at listening, and I’ve worked at it. And one of my mentors, Dr. Terri Kapsalis once said that that is what teaching is, listening.
I wonder if the arts facilitates a particularly close bond between mentors and mentees, because at a certain point you’re colleagues. This is something I spoke with Shannon Stratton, one of my mentors, about. I first met Stratton in 2012 when I took the first iteration of her Party as Form class at Ox-bow School of Art, and then I took a class with her at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (S.A.I.C.) that culminated in an exhibition at ThreeWalls (the gallery Stratton co-founded and co-directed). And then she was one of my advisors, became the second reader on my thesis, and now we’re friends. I told Stratton about this theory when I interviewed her on 4 August 2022, where at a certain point a mentor and a mentee in the arts are just two people working in the same field, and she agreed that that’s how she felt when she was an undergraduate at Alberta College of Art and Design (A.C.A.D.). She told me that she,
… was sort of brought up with that, like, through that situation where it felt like that turned over really quickly where you're like, okay, I'm your student, you're my mentor, we're having potlucks at School, you, you invite me over to your place and we have dinner and I get to know you and your cats, and now we're close friends. And the person I'm talking about, I'm actually still friends with, they visited me in New York at one point, you know? [ii]
Stratton also spoke with me about moving to attend S.A.I.C. for her M.F.A. in Fiber and Material Studies,
… right after September 11th, and at a time where you couldn’t find information about potential professors easily… there were so many people teaching at S.A.I.C., like, I didn't even know where to begin.
I definitely, like, met some, like, interesting people through that, but I still feel a little bit like, I didn't, you know, in hindsight maybe, um... haven't experienced that first year that really was a powerful one when it comes to like, like a relationship with advisors.
And I struggled that year. I really felt like I missed A.C.A.D. cause I really missed the community that I experienced there. And I felt, like, super lost at S.A.I.C. And, like, nobody's office door is propped open, and, like, I didn't, there was like, where do people hang out? Like, nowhere- you know, like, it just felt like it was 9/11, nobody's downtown anyways. Like, it just was like, “Oh God who-", you know, like, “help" [LAUGHS], you know, "somebody."
Um, and I think that the thing that, like, um, was- that replaced that for me is that I had, like, a really profound experience by, like, getting a job at the Joan Flasch Artist Book Collection and then 1926, which was the gallery and the base at the first floor of the Roger Brown Study Collection. And I think, like, those two things for me were, like, okay, that's my Grad School experience. They did, these two jobs that, like, put me in touch with material. Um, and didn't end up being so much again, like, not that I didn't have any interesting relationships to people in case anybody who has ever been my teacher's listening to this, it's just that, like, those things were the thing. Like, I was mentored by those objects or something, you know.
Although, you know, like Doro Böhme was at the library and that, the book collection, and Lisa Stone, who was the curator of the Roger Brown [Study] Collection, while they may not have been mentors of, like, per se, they were, like... their presence was really, like, what they did for a living and who they were was definitely, like, super influential to me.[iii]
I asked Stratton later on in the interview whether being mentored by objects impacted her decision to incorporate the organisation of objects in space and time into her artistic practice, and she responded,
I think about things in terms of, like, what is this object doing in this? You know, I loved your students’ posters because I just thought that was just such an interesting, that's an art object and it's doing this thing. It's performing in a space and inflecting people's behavior. And it's like, that to me is what makes objects interesting, you know?[iv]
I think perhaps This Thing We Call Art is an object that I have created to be mentored by. At the end of our interview on 14 September 2022, Jesse Malmed, permanent guest host of Bad at Sports and creator of countless projects that call for collaboration and hosting of other people and their work, asked me,
… how is this way of doing research, let's say, which is to say that's also very much related to the social and things that you're doing anyway, in other parts, your life, or certainly were pre- pandemic and will continue to do whatever, like being in relation to artists. Um, how is this particular form, and then also thinking about it in ways that can be sort of like structured and considered in research, how has that changed your own practice now, having all these different voices in your head? Lateral voices, not professor voices, not student voices, you know?
I responded,
Yeah. Um... It's funny... having... teachers. Because from a young age, you know, I learned, um, and thankfully I, you know, was aided in this realization, um, by my, by my parents, um, that teachers have to be taught by somebody. And so, it's funny to have this kind of relationship with so many people throughout my studies. Um, but then also, you know, like people that care for you, whatever, you know, giving you advice, things like that.
And then it's really nice to kind of see it as a drop in the bucket rather than, as like these five people who, um, you know, were in positions where they were either paid or felt a responsibility to like, give me some kind of advice or like guide me, or like, tell me how the world is. So, it's been really nice to, like, I do feel like I've learned, like, so much from all of the people that I talk to. So, it's been really nice to, um, be able to have yeah, more voices in my head. Because I feel like it lessens the degree to which any one of those voices becomes a bit too dominant...
Like I always learn a lot and I'm so thankful at people's willingness to talk with me about some stuff that, um, can be quite difficult. Or their willingness to be present with me in this moment. And so, like you said, right, with these interviews, like, that you do on the radio, um, like what does it mean to, yeah, talk to people that you know, but like, um, like have them be kind of not giving you a rote answer, but like rather thing- that they're kind of thinking through in the moment, you know? Like, I feel very thankful that people are willing to do this with me. And I think that, um, you know, understanding of the art world as full of people that are, like, willing to help is, like, something that is so hopeful. Um, and I feel like I always could use a bit more hope in terms of the way that I understand the art world.[v]
Listening back to the interviews from Season Two of the podcast, one reoccurring question is why some people in the arts go out of their way to create opportunities for other people. This is something I asked Katriona Beales about directly when I interviewed her on 14 December 2022, maybe because I knew her interview would be the last of the season. She responded,
I think for me it's a difference between "I" and "we" and when I was trying to negotiate better pay for myself as “I”, I found it really difficult… when I rethought this and with others, we started talking about a "we", and then suddenly it's not about a, any judgment you're making, you're not allowing people to make judgment on you as an individual. You're saying that this is, um, a position of, is an automatic position of power. "We" is like, you know, many. And I think harnessing the idea of many, when you are trying to intervene in terms of like negotiating pay is absolutely essential.[vi]
In Season Two we’ve heard from people who have gone out of their way to form and be active in trade unions, develop long-term participatory projects, and institute more stable contracts for employees. We’ve heard from people who have co-created these resources for others but also for themselves. I wonder if working collaboratively in some way on these resources helps to combat the ever-present feeling of scarcity in the arts. It is not “I” but “we”. How can we use the tools at our disposal to provide the kind of support we need for ourselves but in a way that extends this support to others?
I was speaking about this recently with my brother Maximilian Hines who is a chef and founder of the pop-up chef collective Stolen Goods. In the March 2023 issue of Atlanta Magazine, Mike Jordan wrote,
Part of Stolen Good’s magic is putting collaboration over competition. Members are leaders in their field, but they share the spotlight. Instead of seeing opportunities through a lens of scarcity, the crew works together to support one another. “It creates community, connection, and inspiration between all chefs involved”, says Miller Union executive pastry chef Claudio Martinez, another member (and another 2022 James Beard finalist). “We need less events that are for profit and more for our community that are bringing us closer as a chef family in Atlanta.”[vii]
Sometimes when people tell me they don’t have mentors, or that they’re on the hunt for a mentor, or that their mentors from University are no longer people they can rely on for guidance because they’ve been cycled out by new students, new mentees, new obligations; I respond, “Be a mentor then. The feeling goes both ways.” And that’s something I believe, although it’s sometimes hard to feel is true when you’re exhausted and truly in need of someone who sees you, understands the work you’re doing, and helps you. When you’re in that place, how do you turn a need into an offering?
I feel inclined to mentor others because of how thankful I feel to have and to have had mentors. Walt Michael Bartman III, Linda Johnson, Johnny Coleman, Sarah Schuster, Dr. Romi Crawford, Dr. Terri Kapsalis, and Shannon Stratton saw me, saw what I was and still am trying to do, took responsibility over me, helped me, and guided me through situations which were often more hostile than I realised. And without their help and guidance and friendship and confidence in me and my work, I’m not sure where I would be. This is something I spoke with Jessica Gaynelle Moss about when I interviewed her on 15 September 2021. Moss told me,
I really have had so many folks invest in me and like really make a point to check on me and help me and guide me, uh, and mentor me that I see so much value in that. And I know that, uh, like without their shoulders, that I would not be, I would not have access to so many of the things that I feel like I have access to. And therefore, I feel like this responsibility to steward, um, that next generation of makers and thinkers, because what has been done for me. It's like a responsibility.[viii]
Kelly Lloyd
[i] Ruth Lie, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 3 December 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/ruth-lie.
[ii] Shannon Stratton, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 4 August 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/shannon-stratton.
[iii] Ibid.
[iv] Ibid.
[v] Jesse Malmed, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 14 September 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/jesse-malmed.
[vi] Katriona Beales, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 14 December 2022, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/katriona-beales.
[vii] Mike Jordan, “Pop-up collective Stolen Goods counts some of Atlanta’s finest young chefs of color among its ranks” Atlanta Magazine, 14 March 2023, https://www.atlantamagazine.com/dining-news/pop-up-collective-stolen-goods-counts-some-of-atlantas-finest-young-chefs-of-color-among-its-ranks/.
[viii] Jessica Gaynelle Moss, interview by Kelly Lloyd, This Thing We Call Art, 15 September 2021, https://www.thisthingwecallart.com/podcast/jessica-gaynelle-moss.